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Alex

What's missing from page builder tools?

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The more I study the landscape of the page builder market the more motivated I get to take it on with Marketers Delight!

I see these tools battling out to see who can provide the most advanced features and design functionality, and almost all of them add a ton of bloat to your website inside and out.

Many of these interfaces look like the developers are trying to recreate a Photoshop experience in your WordPress site where you can build everything from scratch one element at a time. This process works, but who wants to start from scratch every time?

Of course that's where premade templates and blocks come in, and they offer a fast way to push out designs and can speed up the content creation process.

But there is often so many customization options that editing a long page can become slow, and especially confusing navigating the layers and layers of menus.

I get it, there is a definite need for these kinds of tools and the market shows that. But I have never enjoyed using these tools and think there needs to be a better way.

With Marketers Delight I see an opportunity to slice into the market with a tool that is the best of both worlds—highly customizable and useful website features but actually lightweight and quick to use. Even one that doesn't remove the flexibility of the awesome WordPress API and template system, and one that even complements it!

I recognize that many of you buy into MD because you want a product that has already made the best design decisions and comes with the most working features without you having to build it all yourself.

That's why the MD Builder (or whatever I call it) will be solutions-oriented, opinionated, and does enough for you that you can create content faster than ever.

So I leave it to you, and please contribute as your voice here could very much influence the path of the MD Builder—what do you find is missing from the page builder market that you would love to see done the "Marketers Delight" way?


- Alex
Check out the MD blog and follow me on Twitter.

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Here's a wishlist that would make my life far easier is playing about with the "content boxes", in a simple MD way:

  • Creating multi-contentbox layouts (as an addon to pageblocks) like the layout Cam has, in order to build website like that, as well as something like the Strategyzer;
  • Being able to clearly specify hover/mouse over effects, such as for a content box to change color or add a stronger hover on mouse over (like Strategyzer).

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+2 for what Ivan said.

Also:

  • Reusable template / code blocks + accompanying CSS that can be re-deployed to other pages (maybe a library created from some of your custom designed MD sites of those willing to share?)
  • More hooks to choose from when using page blocks (e.g.  Instead of having to create the page blocks in order they would be shown, I'd like to be able to reorder them AND choose where each shows up on the page)
  • Pre-built templates that don't impact page speed a lot

May add more as I use PB's more

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Hello guys,

Intro


The fact is that I don't have experience and I don't know much about Visual Composer and Divi and Beaver builder but I just don't like them, in general, So for that reason, I will not criticize those but the rest I will.
>> But I have a lot of experience with - Thrive page builder and Elementor PRO and Optimize press 2 and op3 ( surprisingly as well, even if it's not fully released yet ;) ) So maybe somebody will be interested about op3. So let's dig in

and...

At the end of this post, I will make a final conclusion as I see it as a customer, a fan of this one-man show because Alex`s work is over all those years inspiration for me and so on ... and all those fantastic new features and designs for his clients .. just extremely cool in my eye

Well, lets start: 

___________________________________________________________________

Thrive Architect

People use thrive architect for whole funnel websites, prebuilt. Somehow well coded, quite fast and definitely usable. Those libraries of whole presets of websites are really why people buy it. You have whole funnels ( Inspire from it or not? I don't know if it's possible.. !? )

best features of Thrive? Prebuilt marketing oriented blocks ( People use for formatting their blog posts), sexy table of the contest ( widely used by its users on their websites ). It has also nice video blocks, nice prebuilt designs of those mockups and shadows and u know what I mean .. It's quite sexy and marketing and optimization oriented, which is whole energy around Thrive products. I think that Thrive company just got it. 

Conclusion

1. Absolutely best: Funnel prebuilt-predesigned whole websites ( good to copy for MD if you had a team of 10 other people  ) Ironically you can not use your header footer when you want to simply use the concrete site. So you must work in their interface to create a header ( which is a horrible experience ) 

2. Prebuilt blocks for formatting blog posts

3. Some of the comparison prebuilt blocks, tables id say are also useful

4. Most sexy and highly usable table of a contest for non-coders

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elementor 

as an Elementor Pro USER, I can say that this one is most ideal but still its a page builder. It has abnormal slow speeeeeeed.  So does it has real usage? The sad fact is that is more kinda a toy, not a real gun. Theoretically, it has the best features. Everything you can imagine and don't need of course in reality but still! Most newbie-friendly interface ever, hands down, period.
One day I said to myself: O.K., what is the best web design I have seen so far on the whole internet. My answer was simple:  AdvisonEvolved.com.

so I took Elementor PRO and I was able to copy it onto almost every detail. I was able to make that block where is that light grey text which is like changing on the home page. As I said onto every detail, 100 percent identical and as a newbie! Watch out me ;) Trick is that is extremely slow. So it's not sexy even if you copy the whole design.  Do you want to touch CSS? you want to make some sexy borders or underlines as MD has? You can talk to elementor staff for an ages and bombarding them on this topic, but cmooon They know when it comes to the code and CSS behind its just sh@t. ( TIP TO MAKE MONEY: Maybe one of you who is really good in CSS go out there for millions of installations of Elementor and go create simple ebook or video lessons how to make 1 primitive underline or 1px bottom border >wherever< you want with The Elementor, and I swear to you - for that 1 piece of knowledge I will pay 20 or 30 bucks and thousands of others, and I will buy such an ebook or course from you because I couldn't simply GET IT. CSS around Elementor is a real problem - solution? - big money. Period. ). But I was trying to go hard and trying even understanding selectors .. I went a little bit into studying CSS and what I found their CSS is completely fu:@d. One simply headline looks like neverending text you just give up and i think its right decision when you consider its slow anyways. 

Conclusion

1. User-friendly interface to create simply anything, full control about every part of your websites ( header and footer creating, wtf? it's amazing, any pop-up,  blog layout ( just theoretically because you can play with CSS ;) but still ) 

2. It allows you to create anything really and has a big variety of prebuild stuff. Not that marketing and conversion oriented but still.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Optimize press ( 2.0, 3.0 )

British asset! LOL! The biggest failure in the history of page builders ( for me ) when it comes to their new product Optimize press 3.0

Op2 amazing, usable, integrated membership plugin was widely used and we all know why. Marketing oriented clean and fast. The number 1 priority of building sites. FAST and clean must say it 3. time...

It had amazing designs for that year and stage of internet marketing and marketer`s needs.  But I think those needs did not change so there is much more what to inspire from OP2 than from anything which is shiny nowadays... Maybe some of you agree with me... 

Amazing prebuilt templates for that time, and had that angle of funnels for sales pages, memberships sites, landing pages... However, interface and not possibility to end from the front. And i guess enjoying and partying of the team ( drinking, drugs and rock-n-roll  ) Killed the company, not the backend interface its just my feeling, opinion and guessing I don't know why they did not accelerate when I consider here is one Alex and can beat with his progress as one guy .. million dollar company. brand and whole team .. Anyways, its none of my business 
Because they stated - they spent 1000` of hours of developing a new product called op3 

Before!! >They claimed: For customers which have full access and upgrade of op2 ( which I paid 300 dollars for unlimited licenses - with no real usage lol  i think plus some tax and subscriptions later on to having chance to get updated product ( plugin and theme ) lol they did shit in that time since then and I just wasted money because as I said they claimed they give to those active subscribers op3 for free.
Did they give a new product for free?
The first page straight from an email I got onto a checkout page. Put card details .. I did not even see the product? Just to have a look make sure subscribe .. Baam hundred of pounds :D Wtf? Never saw interface features single page created in it .. Just lmao. Well, I got inside and How is it? Ofc its fail .. its years behind it's not even scratching the surface they talk about giving out some funnel plugin which can go angle of clickfunnels. It would be nice but as I said its years behind bye bye British you are done... Assholes. That CEO James or who added me on facebook before they were launching op3 now I guess as a part of their branding and marketing activities to refresh their fan base .. Assholes really .. I have chance to not pay in July, ofc I will not pay. They disappointed the whole crowd I am guessing its the fail of the years ... 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make it fast long story short. 

There are many features which are usable and really smart to copy, but as I say to make it short from 1 customers view 

MD, thankfully Alex did enormous progress after years of its development and Its already complete engine and for me is and always be the only theme not just the number 1 theme. When it comes to custom design WordPress site, blog... But ... Let's dig in final thoughts:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 

The huge 1. MD would make great progress. If it makes bridge between people who don't want about index files ( any HTML knowledge ) as I and allows to people from cloud or somewhere implement demo pages, different ones .. as well as blog layouts ( and this is a big one ) If I had 4-8 different blog layouts ) not mentioning if I would be allowed to customize some size of boxes or something .. That be the number 1 asked feature by me. Something like a library. On another side, I understand what is MD about its speed and custom design so I don't know if something like this is possible. Because is the highest quality of code in Wordpress space. In my opinion Design as AdvisorEvolved.com and many others are the 20 thousand of dollars websites. I would value them as most valuable so ... I don't know if implementation, as I mentioned, would be ever possible. 

And just new blocks but not Gutenberg style. A hack I don't even know what to click in that interface lol and I am not joking. Which is weirder I don't even want to know  Again something like a library of blocks whether is for blog posts or pages would be amazing

2. I think simple membership pages, designs and interface not integrations of plugins. Anyone can install plugin he wants for securing content etc. But some certain set of pages as a preset demo for membership would be absolutely huge. And its again about some demo pages so its almost

3. And when we stayed with those prebuild pages, layouts, and blocks ... There can be anything inserted into MD because everything that is already in MD is just so super cool. 

4. And one simple forum post: For noncoders and those who don't even know CSS 1px bottom borders and underlines ,ANYWHERE, guide would be super cool too ;)  

P.S. Sorry but English is not even my 2. language so ... And sorry for too much text. Its the way I think loud ... 

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Another idea for the builder: Additional options for the Main menu, in order to be able to build detailed submenus like Mickey Visit:

menu.thumb.png.9b5704f9cd947cacac1f2a1ddd76b179.png

...as well as just simply edit how long a submenu line can be, in order not to have submenu items in two rows, like on my site:

menu2.png.c34528cd1abdf65a20e838e7a8f34b81.png

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On 6/23/2019 at 10:46 AM, ZenLion said:
  • More hooks to choose from when using page blocks (e.g.  Instead of having to create the page blocks in order they would be shown, I'd like to be able to reorder them AND choose where each shows up on the page)
  • Pre-built templates that don't impact page speed a lot

These are both version 1 features as the industry standard I am finding out is to make these kinds of elements as portable as possible. My design concepts for the actual interface are like nothing I have seen in any other tools and saving/importing Blocks and templates are a staple of how this new interface will work. Thank you for reaffirming those ideas here!

On 6/23/2019 at 2:39 PM, michkocis said:

People use thrive architect for whole funnel websites, prebuilt. Somehow well coded, quite fast and definitely usable. Those libraries of whole presets of websites are really why people buy it. You have whole funnels ( Inspire from it or not? I don't know if it's possible.. !? )

Thrive is certainly a power tool but I hate how bloated it is. The few times I've tried it I have never been able to install it from the Plugins manager because it is too large for some servers to upload. I believe MD will be able to take the reigns and become known as the lightweight alternative, and while I am not looking to compete with them on a level of "infinite flexibility" (that's where ALL page builders become bloated), creating pages fast and being able to reuse templates and blocks around your site is the foundation I am building these new tools on.

On 6/23/2019 at 2:39 PM, michkocis said:

as an Elementor Pro USER, I can say that this one is most ideal but still its a page builder. It has abnormal slow speeeeeeed.  So does it has real usage? The sad fact is that is more kinda a toy, not a real gun. Theoretically, it has the best features. Everything you can imagine and don't need of course in reality but still! Most newbie-friendly interface ever, hands down, period.

Your comments about Elementor are the most fascinating of your entire post and I want to thank you for putting such amount of thought into sharing your experiences. If Elementor is the industry standard then I have great conviction that MD can crush those standards. Sure, the infinite capabilities of Elementor is what will draw people to use and it why it succeeds, but the ever-growing of markup and resources its features takes is why I will not take it as a serious tool for anybody who cares for a high-performing site.

Personally I find many of these tools encourage people to create things that are not necessary for the bottom line, or even practical purposes, and I am not in the business of giving you something that can play into your every whim (which does not always produce good ideas!) but one that will produce actual results whether it be converting more people to your email list, or developing a serious connection to your audience.

By staying focused on those ideas and learning about what does make Elemenot great, I believe MD can be a tool that really offers something valuable and fixes the problems on the market today.

On 6/23/2019 at 2:39 PM, michkocis said:

The huge 1. MD would make great progress. If it makes bridge between people who don't want about index files ( any HTML knowledge ) as I and allows to people from cloud or somewhere implement demo pages, different ones .. as well as blog layouts ( and this is a big one ) If I had 4-8 different blog layouts )

Exactly—all of MD's tools are built for developers and non-developers and this is how it has to be to grow into something massive. Non-developers, of course, so effective websites can be easily created without touching code, and for developers so those same features can be extended for custom sites and even to release as Dropins.

Your point about the blog loops is something I have taken seriously to heart and I think you will enjoy reading my response in another thread about that here. ;)

On 6/23/2019 at 2:39 PM, michkocis said:

2. I think simple membership pages, designs and interface not integrations of plugins. Anyone can install plugin he wants for securing content etc. But some certain set of pages as a preset demo for membership would be absolutely huge. And its again about some demo pages so its almost

Great point, and I hope the MD demo site is at least a good start for this.

-----

Thank you everyone for your feedback so far, it's been extremely valuable!


- Alex
Check out the MD blog and follow me on Twitter.

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Thank you for your response. I actually felt quiet bad that i just wrote a lot, style - thinking out loud.  But you were very kind in your response And hack! - Opposite - You actually took time and  went point by point...  :)  Thanks very much Alex! So if you are so kind why not to write you MORE and MORE :D LEts go!

After time when i look at this topic..  Well i have one secret not indexed site where i test all the diferent plugins and themes in the world in style, Advanced WP reset which is plugin where u simply reset stuff and go from start, all u do ust reactivate what you need now ( themes, plugins, all the rest - wiped )  .. And .. I always create smthing i guess its useful and then i delete it and so on and so on .. Thats what i do all the years instead of watchin tv or playing games during long nights when i am bored.. And ... My point is ... I can honestly say, there is no theme for a blog, which you can compare in its cleansity and load speed and overall feel.. By far .. And all those addons and diferent plugins and BS brings just stress, overhelm, and look at all those page builders .. just problems with code and slow speed .. So i would say this is smthing i learned from page builders .. its good when u turn off as many moduls and widgets and bs as you can and leave 2-3-4 elements you actually need and thats it ...

So seriously after i tested 1000`s of BS as a hobby as a wordpress enthusiast ... Seriously - blog layouts in MD possibilities - also for non devs ( important part ;) )is the only feature needed - SO YOU SPOTTED it in that mass text well and i am sure you 100 percent took it to heart.. I have no doubts ..  :) If i was in your position i  would add 1 new menu which takes us to world of blog layouts ... and we are back in basics .. Blogging .. and LUXURY :)

 would focus not for just designs but for its usecase, purpose ... Hack maybe they could have names. Can you imagine someone who never saw MD coing to that section .. no bullshit no teamplates as Hospital and garden and as you see libraries in page builders or deiferent shops for templates .. but bloggin theme with all the possible loops ... 

1. lifestylebreak.com  ( Very good example, fast, clean .. pure marketers purpose in putting massive paid traffic stragiht to landers - presell pages 

to some stylish but simple as 

2. CryptoWp.com

and would go on and on until we reach some ultra designs as

3. StartUpBros.com

or just MD.net where is today, which is just Wow... You really should allow use this layout for people its amazing 

Even, such a Adam Preiser who look for a products actively what he can promote on his channel and level up once he using smthing it has 20 times impact on his affiliate business and overall win win win business .... Anybody would have 0 probs with tech stuff because that can be said infront without further missundertanding as you would just keep making more vids for assholesa an lazy people :D and blog layouts library whther you create 3 or 100 i wuld be first who buy all of them i dont care :D

Its funny becasue I and my online activities dont involve building custom sites. I use simple landing pages ( thrive - still not the perefct anywayyys but ) But i still play in mind with thought i would be building sites for clients just on side for plessure and as a side income.  Each and every of us with entrepreneurial mind dreams or builds already smthing what matters .. and when somebody builds what matters, lets be honnest you wanna have best .. and MD is best .. so .. And blog loops are the only barrier and now i shut up!

SO i said to myself, just for myself if i make 1 person in this world happier wiht smthing i design as non dev :)) The day you will release these feature i will become proud MarketersDelight designer ( Hybrid, non code! combining simply Elementor for unnecessary and MD for all the rest - core ) :D

Anyways - Once again - thank you for reading my MASS text 

Regards

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