MD critical feedback thread

Some French Dude

SomeFrenchDude
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Currently working on:
  1. Trying to get an appointment (Covid-19 is still here for real) with a technician to fix my internet. My upload speed is 0.8 Mbps.
  2. Trying not to go crazy because of #01 when I was ready to upload my first videos on YouTube to create my channel.
  3. Trying to create a SIMPLE and free payment and delivery/hosting system funnel to deliver my online courses to future customers.
  4. Trying to get my MD Theme clean and ready for launch.
  5. Hoping for @Alex to confirm soon that evertyhing is alright in the MD and MailerLite integration, following up my posts in this forum.
  6. Trying to promote MD everywhere I can but - I am not sure how to phrase this correctly - I have been objected price complaint with respect to MD when people compare it to other solutions including seemingly more marketing features: video-related marketing features, time-sensitive feature and other ClickFunnels and OptimizePress-like sales pages functionalities, visitors' profiling (tagging, tracking) to best integrate with auto-responders' segmenting capacities, A/B testing features, engagement-triggering surveys, etc.
    I try to defend MD as best as I can with my own tools and arguments and I clearly recognize the value of MD, but I admit I am also missing myself those features for Marketers sometime. When thinking about Clickfunnels and its success that made his creator a millionaire, I'm not sure how all that can compare to MD... or if we're talking about 2 different planets...
  7. Trying to keep breathing calm and easy, keep smiling and not killing myself out of passion for learning and creating content.
 
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Ray

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You're really in the thick of it out there.

I can't address everything you mentioned but here are a few things to ponder....

Trying to create a SIMPLE and free payment and delivery/hosting system funnel to deliver my online courses to future customers.
Simple AND free? That's a tall order. More often than not, you get what you pay for. If...and I say if with a great deal of skepticism you find a great, free option, you're paying in other ways.

Trying to promote MD everywhere I can but - I am not sure how to phrase this correctly - I have been objected price complaint with respect to MD when people compare it to other solutions including seemingly more marketing features: video-related marketing features, time-sensitive feature and other ClickFunnels and OptimizePress-like sales pages functionalities, visitors' profiling (tagging, tracking) to best integrate with auto-responders' segmenting capacities, A/B testing features, engagement-triggering surveys, etc.
You already know that I think MD is a great product, and you probably knew I'd jump all over this like a Frech Dude to a Baguette!!!

So here's what I'll say to this — Marketers Delight is not Clickfunnels, and Clickfunnels is not MD.

You can use Clickfunnels to compliment your self-hosted content on MD.
Clickfunnels is a tool you should use to create funnels — and MD is a theme you should use to showcase your content, product, or service.

I could really go off on a tangent here but I think you get it, and probably shouldn't worry about not being able to convince anyone to buy Marketers Delight. If/When you hear someone asking about or needing a WordPress theme, recommend MD. If they need split testing, funnels, and related features, recommend Click Funnels. Simply match their needs to a suitable solution.

I try to defend MD as best as I can with my own tools and arguments and I clearly recognize the value of MD, but I admit I am also missing myself those features for Marketers sometime. When thinking about Clickfunnels and its success that made his creator a millionaire, I'm not sure how all that can compare to MD... or if we're talking about 2 different planets...
Hey man, I try to defend Eli Mannings merits as a Hall-of-Famer but if I'm talking to a Pats fan, all I hear are words like "Lucky, Not as Good as His Brother, and F**k Eli Manning" so I feel your pain.

You should really try to see MD, Clickfunnels, and Eli Manning for what they are and not try to put unreasonable expectations on them.

Would you try to convince someone that they should use Clickfunnels to build their blog? If you looked at Clickfunnels as a flawed blogging tool, you would be doing it a disservice. And if Alex and other Patriot fans continue to see Eli as the least talented of the Manning brothers, they're undervaluing the future HOFer.

And I'll end it on this — if MD were to offer all of the features Clickfunnels offers, it would cost way more than $67/year.

Stay safe out there.
 

Alex

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Trying to get an appointment (Covid-19 is still here for real) with a technician to fix my internet. My upload speed is 0.8 Mbps.
Ouch, I don't even see how that is operable! Test of patience for sure.

I try to defend MD as best as I can with my own tools and arguments and I clearly recognize the value of MD, but I admit I am also missing myself those features for Marketers sometime. When thinking about Clickfunnels and its success that made his creator a millionaire, I'm not sure how all that can compare to MD... or if we're talking about 2 different planets...
Ray nailed it that you will be in a losing battle if you have to compare MD to ClickFunnels or really any other product. Even going down the road of comparing MD as the better product over others I don't think is a winning or fully honest approach either.

You can see we are building towards similar functionality like rapid template editing but we are getting there gradually by making the best decisions to ensure the long term sustainability and best performance. That is a massive benefit of MD, that it is a product that makes gives you a platform you can host for yourself that doesn't self-destruct over time like many many other WordPress solutions.

You can also say how compatible we are with page builders and other longform content building tools so even if people wanted to create "funnels" they can do so by adding a page builder plugin. Otherwise the amount of other plugins eliminates gives you room for flexibility to add a few other plugins that won't break the performance bank.

You can even mention how grassroots we are and how this community drives the product's growth. There is so much we have going on here that you should never have to be in a defensive position but are always countering with what we are looking ahead towards and all of the things we currently do for the casual website owner looking to have an all in one solution.

-----

With that being said, here's what I am working on today:
  1. Restoring code snippets to MD documentation
  2. Organizing and editing documentation pages
  3. Working with @Ray and @Jake O'Callaghan to plan new blog content
  4. Watching the forums for new discussions :)
 

Some French Dude

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@Ray: thanks for making me smile with the French Baguette. So true, even if I lost mine tonight because I decided to fully deprive myself to offer it to the family of coypus I met when walking back home. True story.
Nature and wild animals seems to be very happy with the Covid-19 crisis.

If they need split testing, funnels, and related features, recommend Click Funnels. Simply match their needs to a suitable solution.
I'll be honest with @Alex and you. You know I'm on your side with MD but I have a feeling my words are not fully heard and I'm trying to stay as subtile as possible. So I may be using too much nuance not to offend anybody, but trust me, there is a trend I see EVERY DAY in the community of digital marketers/solopreneurs - basically digital marketers and content creators that earn a living by selling online courses. Those guys have a tendency to be reduce their costs as much as possible.

Most of them here in France hates ClickFunnels. They think is heavy, complex and MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE. They are using LEAN and CHEAP solution and some of them can earn up to $10 or even $50k per month.

One of them is generating $80k per month and has been using GoogleDrive for 6 years to deliver his courses in Zipped format.
Many others are using https://www.optimizepress.com/ but less than 10% of them would be willing to add a WP theme costing $60 or more to it.

And the new trend is the all-in-one solution offering your the power of MD, ClickFunnels & MailerLite combined. There are a few solutions including one that costing only $27 per month: No fees on payment transaction, p to 5,000 email members, unlimited funnel, unlimited emails sent, video hosting, powerful marketing automation and marketing tools such as the features I described above: video-related, time-sensitive content, etc.

You may disagree with this abut this is not me saying this, but dozen and dozen of content creator and marketers I have talked with: When they discover MD, they say it's lacking the feature they need and they go to Thrive. I already hear you tell me that Thrive is just another product, nothing to do with MD. Again, I am not saying this. The "market" and community around me is saying so.
I'm talking about MARKETERS and ONLINE CONTENT CREATORS (not web developers). People who want and need to focus on content and marketing, not technical stuff.

I really think this is the next trend. I am pretty sure ClickFunnels will lose ground like Altavista disappeared when Yahoo and then Google came in. Who remembers Altavista? Those guys were my absolute go-to search engine, so powerful. But they did not catch the trend on time. Aging technology...

I will repeat myself: I trust @Alex 105% when he says MD is optimized, light, flexible. May be an outstanding tool for web agency and site developers (not my case and business).
But try to be fully objective when you read this: MarketersDelight.
What is the first word in the name?

That's where I want to fight for MD to improve and grow regarding purely marketing features. Or should it be name WebDevelopersDelight?

Every marketer knows how to craft their messaging, niche their business, etc. It's all about marketing. But what they really need are marketing tools to help sell more. So, yes, funnel options. But more than that: Tagging/profiling capabilities, AUTOMATION, and those type of video and content-based feature I already shared here and there in the forum.

I am not trying to generate endless discussion, just sharing my point of view and true feeling. Hope you understand. Hope that helps too. If you think I'm totally wrong, sorry or that. No harm intended. Quite the opposite.
 

Alex

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That was one of the most insightful posts you have ever written here and I thank you for the time spent doing that.

I understand the allure of the all in one hosted marketing platform as you are talking about, but the key philosophical distinction between us and "them" goes back down to the longstanding argument of renting your content vs, owning your content.

No features you have mentioned are impossible to build outside of those hosted solutions, they just take time to build it in the style of software that Marketers Delight is; you download, host, and update the files on your own inexpensively and get new and more powerful tools delivered to your site. No monthly costs and if you want to switch away you still keep your content on the WordPress platform. Good luck doing that on a platform you don't own, and few (if any) companies have been as aggressive as MD on this front.

Now there is nothing inherently wrong with paying a monthly subscription or even renting your website/funnels, especially if it is making you 10x what you pay for it per month. However, just like political parties, this is not the way we believe in doing things and are fighting tooth and nail to make our vision a reality in this ever more and more commercialized space. Plenty of people are buying in and more incredible results are being produced daily.

Simply put, how you see MD today is not how it will be in just a few months from now in terms of features and mass understanding of the way its internal systems work. Not only do you get a piece of software you completely own and can do anything with, but it is constantly evolving into something more powerful and raising its own standards at what's possible.

There are many who brush off the value of "owning your own content" because it means nothing to their bottom line now, but couple that philosophy with the power features MD has and is continuing to get in an increasingly censored world and all of a sudden it becomes very important.

When you put down the development capabilities of MD you show a lack of understanding of why they are important for teams who do have developers and how much money, time, and software overhead they save by being able to use a copy and paste a simple filter vs. trying to find the toggle switch in a nuclear submarine to navigate out of a swimming pool (you still with me?).

I'd like to challenge you as you have challenged me in this paragraph: your definition of what marketing is also holds you back from understanding what we are building here. It's not all funnels and unlimited templates and locking down content, in fact our approach is a lot more direct: you want content? Here it is right in front of you on my beautifully designed blog. You want more content? Here's my email list, my stream, the books I'm reading, even read my glossary page to understand what I'm talking about and give Google a really nice indicator of the quality and diversity of my site's content.

In short, I am not here to create a product that attracts the marketing bros and funnel experts, I am challenging the conventional thinking of what "marketing" is in a more wholesome way and I have accepted long ago this will not vibe well in the "traditional" marketing communities (however I agree with building just about every feature you have cited). Let them go elsewhere, for many of them are our customers of the future who just don't know it yet.

Just as you, I only wrote this post with the best and warmest intentions and hope it has been received that way. That being said, and to add to the conclusion of your last message, there is to be no more discussion of this subject in this thread and to get back on topic. If you or anybody else wishes to continue this conversation, let's move it to private message or post to a new thread.
 

michkocis

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Simply put, how you see MD today is not how it will be in just a few months from now in terms of features and mass understanding of the way its internal systems work. Not only do you get a piece of software you completely own and can do anything with, but it is constantly evolving into something more powerful and raising its own standards at what's possible.
I personally can not wait. After you delivered that loop solution with beautiful logic order and Loop options for categories etc. I say this it got me in heart really. Because I was thinking in terms of reverse engineering of this Single work and I realized you must have been working on this in your mind very long ( energy-consuming as hell ) in terms of How to structure it How to do it. Am I right Alex?

I had to say or give credit to Frech dude for that Should be called different way, but I would add this: That in times when you bought this domain .. that .. , MarketersDelight, really there weren't out there such a sexy looking themes, NOT EVEN 1 and? With marketing look-feel-first features, because even marketing and business models and solutions possible out there to use - tools, were completely different, Was a lot about > blogging, so logically if it was from beginning blogging theme I don't think we can blame Alex for that, Nowadays he did not went Thrive Products way, on another hand its best blogging theme and trust me I bought like 30 :D Each and every best one. It's not even my business, it's my passion .. Wordpress and all that good stuff... So yea its stated clearly its blogging theme with ,Marketers features, which is true. Because French dude you don't know the history of this product, it had page leads, and all that CTA options, etc. That's why it wasn't just an ordinary theme. But Alex I say he is a space traveler so he came ahead with that stuff so not many people saw it, got it :DD

<<THast to that joke of You should be called: DD>> I loved that I give credit to French Dude! <3

I would say this: Let's Not blame Alex, that he is NOT ALL IN ONE SOLUTION ( like nowadays trends for marketers, let's say that he is not Thrive or CF, which wouldn't make sense, did not get why FD has put this theme to comparison hmm :( ) BUT! better support Alex because I believe this young man can create best library solution YES for sites like for agencies ( Agree with you French dude ) agencies, well for anybody in terms of static website for any business < who wants to implement content I mean also blogging strategies ;) ... MD is the way for premium, If you are like me that you don't know code, I would do this: I wouldn't bombard this support 20 messages a day just to show your principal you already saw he is an amazing helper, etc but thinks of this: IF you consume half a day every day then is 50 percent slowed down developing of future of this AMAZING PRODUCT, let's not agree! Cmon .. AND I would simply use Elementor. :)
Not perfect had some misunderstand with the reality of the rest of the world ( not everybody knows code ) But I think all standards now are cool, it's now on 1 click soo .. I go back I was talking about principals and points and needed genuine help. I think that is all awesome from you FD. You brought energy and wisdom here and I am glad because things are moving here and Alex working developing :p So .. I am glad for everything even for your 200 messages, I read everything because i want to learn something too lol .. don't get me offended I just freestyle talk

Let me go into something which I understand more: CF 90 or 300 a month or tool for 27 a month .. I completely agree with you French dude on the points of which one is better, costs, logic, and where the industry is heading BUT think of this... If you or somebody (gonna use now)like this If not using CF for funnels = you are not even marketer, you play with ... toyz. If you are pro, you master optimize conversion, but not solving how much is a tool lol... If you solving how much is your tool and getting emotional on this .. You losing energy to create something best and fucking crush it out there and dominate .. SO> and PLUS having a proper product with good margin you know your numbers you going play stuff, you going arbitrage .. you not going to sell 7 dollar ebook wasting years of developing that amazing 7 dollar ebook and then you blame market or CF is expensive .. it's NOT ... its best solution because? of DOWNLOADING already proven to convert - funnels ... give me the name of 1 tool where you can be sure that you are already proven to work? 0 <<< SO another sign of importance and VALUE of cloud library ;)

OR .. better code OptimizePress 3? Hello? we are marketers .. you going sell a course you doing it pro and you going to make 100`s of K or then what are you doing lol, see my point? that CF is expensive that is far from reality if you know what you doing. Point? CF is for those how to know and control their numbers and that's why they use CF because it is ahead so they can focus on the numbers ( conversion, that rate) PLUS the opportunity to an affiliate gives you another level of engagement community, opportunity, energy ...

A poor mindset makes us worry and thinking of money. Playing with WordPress in marketing is for amateurs and small fish. Can not comparing tools ... we must have the mindset: best for your business for results and speed < this is all it matters ONCE somebody does marketing. Thinking, comparing solving world, waste of time> your creatives, audiences .. your sales copy, your pitch > all the marketing ahead to checkout page .. That is much work to work to optimize ... If somebody focuses on which tool to use lol :D Its simple look:

Going to blog? MD
Going to do brutal arbitrage and dominate? CF
Going CPA, Affil need to test and tweak? Code pure: Hore developer for those works
Comparable CF-Thrive is for smaller players for funnels yea you still need checkout page ;) You have proven one? see my point? CF has :) Just this, just very this, if mindset right - u will not think of watching investment into the tool...
Going to host the video for the proper course and earn money? HELLO? wanna play in Wordpress for such projects? Dumb, wrong mindset. .. there are tools 50 bucks a month. You have a membership site < done, beautiful clean fast they host your videos? VICTORY, from worries and expensive onto no worries.. easy


People should rethink their life resources when choosing tools and looking at it differently.
Btw I don't talk to anybody particular to defend or go against now .. just talking and talking because of being bored.

All idea behind talking freely about tools is that if somebody starts going from proven cheaper solution onto when he makes money then buy the best tools to make even more money. It's simple logic. Ther are proven winners for every stage a need in your business

I think we should be grateful we are alive and I say this: I am glad there is such a good community like this ... Nothing is perfect, but I can choose one product I truly love and believe it goes into perfection? I chose MD for blogging > Listen, guys, why I am saying that? I watch all the WordPress themes ( because it's my passion ) and once of 1 and the half-year comes 10 percent better > some theme then GP then u go back to GP if you make sites for money as a freelancer or business because it just makes sense

Suggestions for MD:
FEATURE - GP SITES LIBRARY IS THE BIGGEST VALUE FOR THE MONEY INVESTED - people will agree on that on the quality of websites you can DOWNLOAD from cloud AND it has amazing premium features just as MD has got. I don't compare those 2.
Because I am more on the MD side for any project. They go slightly different directions anyways... I believe they will cross the same ways once the library will be created by Alex and since then will be game over for every theme for blogging out there including GP... PLus perfect header possibilities ( Just copy GP logic, premium feature ) a create maximally in terms of new, features, welcome mat! :)) As French dude suggested. I think it's a big one ..
STILL Suggesting:
+ Give us 1 blog post of CSS tricks for effects for LINKS AND sidebars are poor, I would go into 3 new styles ( 1 mickyvisit, 1 something cool effect one just something proper classic style but good working ) Yea sidebars are poor in terms of related posts ... Its all I would be ever missing. My vision is that I see MD with those amazing unique sexy look websites in library simple 3-4 pages, not 7-25 lol .... home, blog, services have done :) .. I would pay 100-500 pounds to download site like advisor evolved just done so u can resell to your client for-profit easily. Why even pay per 1 download? Well, is there out there solution where you don't have to tweak and recreate from scratch everything? I did not see yet...But why to pay? If you see sites created by MD ... Whould you feel bad or good when showing to the client? < Real-life question - answer, see? i would be proud i give him premium stuff. I would easily become websites reseller lol, would make a lot of money ;-)
AND STILL SUGGESTING:
see simple, u going to make niche sites, boom library 1-2 niche sites there, original with original layouts proper for good reading, 1 unique homepage ... omg, this is can be crazy? Need agency - boom 2-3-4 pages boom ... u now have an agency website. Many themes already having a cloud library. But I ask you this- Is there such a premium feel look and movement and clarity of code? No its not, GP is kinda near... But still ... It's only for developers too and it gets older, once again i would pay for every single download don't start to hate me I am just pointing at the value and importance to have this .. Plus 2-3-4 landing pages no need 12 funnels ... 2-3 landing pages after time... It can be amazing! I

All the best don't get offended anybody, sharing is loving!
 
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michkocis

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If you or anybody else wishes to continue this conversation, let's move it to a private message or post to a new thread.
O shit!! I am sorry I did not read that last block of text

BUT IF these posts can not be deleted,
I would also say this. Up there I was saying suggestions. FOR TODAY I don't have any and once again I would add credit to Alex. Alex knows well that some library would be future whether he decides to make it or not .. I think we all should give big credit and respect for MD5.1 I was complaining and mounting for years why that why so why I can not control. Today no excuses. As it stands for content marketing strategy, blogging, giving content out there as being said. That is it.
LEts us go out there and create something to give that true credit to this amazing product and its Creator. Big shout out for you my man! And you also deserve recharge refresh remotivate in terms of relax. I 'll be honest when I was watching you last couple of months. Such pressure and guess what all? he delivered and its not shit and it works. I first time in my life building massive project even if I combine Elementor but all core stays MD

Good luck, go out there and go create

SORRY ALEX but I had to close this section, omg.. really sry did not read very last sentence
 
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Some French Dude

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I won't keep this conversation going since @Alex prefer us not to do so and I respect that but I just received another email from one of the French top marketer today.

He's explaining why he just let die his leading blog with over 1,000 published articles and 100,000 organic visitors per month, because he realized blog visitors are 80% tourists and you can get X times more results with targeted ads created in days and get more results today than you can get in spending years in creating content for not even half the same result.
I know it goes against our content-based approach here but this guy is just a living proof of what he says. He updated a plugging on his wordpress, got a FATAL ERROR, and just decided to go away and let it in FATAL ERROR mode for ever.

Bullshit or food for thought, I leave it up to you.
I'll stick to my content approach and hopefully won't fail from it.
 

Alex

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I won't keep this conversation going since @Alex prefer us not to do so
For the record I have moved this important discussion to its own thread and encourage all relevant feedback and opinions to be posted on this forum no matter how critical they may be. I only ask they stay on topic, and this conversation started off topic in another thread so I have moved it here accordingly.
 
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